OST butterfly bead in real STERLING SILVER recast (pics+)

[Donny_Jepp]

What we have here is the "OST butterfly bead" from GemsAndKnots.com that was recast into real pure STERLING SILVER. These are just samples, they're not even finished at all, that means they're not polished (to keep the costs down), you could shine them yourself or buff them with a rubber tipped head on a bench grinder, as well as file off the loose metal pieces that the mold seam couldn't fully reproduce correctly. The molding process involved silicone that took a week or two to cure. This process was a major pain from dealing with the jeweler and the local outsource caster. We should have used some cheap metal like tin or pewter since these were not cheap, I can't even imagine selling them. We only have four samples and they're not completed. I don't pretend that I made these out of my own backyard, but I am at least knowledgeable enough to answer any spec questions about the process, I can at least provide that information.

Here's the description chart:
GREEN = GemsAndKnots.com model made from metalized plastic.
PURPLE = pure sterling silver (unfinished/unpolished)
RED= pure sterling silver (unfinished/unpolished) heated with a candle & blackened with soot in crevices to bring out the details more.

The "UNFINISHED/UNPOLISHED" issue with recasting anything or working with metal casting in general is that you lose detail once the heated metal touches the molds. The process to finish/polish these would cost extra per piece, I just wanted to keep the costs down. But I could have gotten that done, they do more than just shine up the metal, they sometimes can re-shape the design details in the crevices.

[Maui512]

Those look great! I see a lot of potential there, should polish up very nicely. Do you think these will be practical and affordable to produce? If so I'm number one on the list

[Donny_Jepp]

Oh man, I really hope they're good for selling. I mean this really stinks going through a jeweler and paying retail to re-sell. The polishing and re-touching up of details could be the main issue. This isn't totally my own project, I just initiated it. I wont be the one selling them at all, I just started it, did all the work, checked both parties of the jeweler, the caster, as well as the friend who is funding these (that will also sell them online).

The silver doesn't really turn out too well on camera, it's so shiny that it looks dull. But it's still a tad too matte and definitely needs shining. I mean, look at the not-so-clean cast work, that's like if this bead was real from back in the 1700s, and whoever was wearing it had climbed alot of sharp rocks and hit their forehead into them, gone through a ton of maneuvers etc, as well as the metal aging (if silver really does that) and there you have it, it ended up in a museum. Does that still sound appealing? I'm sorry it's/they're not finished yet. But do they really have actual potential?

I'm still debating whether I should just send these samples back to the caster and get a refund since it was so expensive, and just pay off the mold labor. The mold process took a week or two to fully cure. And each mold lasts only for a few of these beads to be used on. So new molds have to be made each time. Am I doing something wrong here? Meaning, should I re-create my own replica of this bead in silicone and then have them cast that? Why I ask, is because this jeweler is a slow-working alcoholic procrastinator sort of guy, and he didn't even touch any of the work, it was all the caster, but the information came from the jeweler, since the caster wont deal direct with customers. He said something about "ahhh this bead is plastic, you need silicone to work with" then mentions "rubber is what we normally cast in" so this is hectic & doesn't fully make sense!

[Mrs. Captain Jack Sparrow]

These look great Donnie! I like how you posted many pictures of your new treasure. I think they have potential. I'm behind you on these 100%! Silver is a much more better metal and cleans up real nice. I know that you did put alot of effort on getting these recast. Beautifully done luv. I think you Captains out there would love these beauties!
~Mrs. Captain Jack Sparrow (a.k.a Attorney at Law)

[Lawrence252]

Just wondering if you got permission from GemsAndKnots before recasting these? As more of a 'prop builder' than 'cosplayer' recasting has never been something I would condone.

What you've done looks nice, but all the the hard work was done by GemsAndKnots.

Lawrence

[Donny_Jepp]

Just wondering if you got permission from GemsAndKnots before recasting these? As more of a 'prop builder' than 'cosplayer' recasting has never been something I would condone.

What you've done looks nice, but all the the hard work was done by GemsAndKnots.

Lawrence

Seriously? I told GemsAndKnots (Mary Roberts) exactly what I was doing since March of 2011 this year. But, I never made a single penny off of this. And from what I originally thought, was that GemsAndKnots didn't design this bead at all, they just sell them, by the thousands, from inventory, not from their own personal foundry or whatever mystery assumed within. It's retail, not factory-direct. (unless I'm mistaken, Mary please inform us!)

What gave you that idea sir? Did they "claim" to have designed and/or create these? Does it say "exactly that" on their website? Is it listed as "their originals"? Or are they mass produced in China somewhere by someone? Should Penny Rose(costume designer & department) from "Pirates Of The Caribbean" pay a haul-load of royalties to GemsAndKnots and/or whoever else for using this same bead within their Disney/Bruckheimer certified images of Johnny Depp's face in every single screen shot? Or is this just another one of those billions of items floating in existence that is royalty-free? I'd seriously like to know.

I know that "recasting is wrong" considerably or whatever, but when you want something in a more precious & permanent metal, and no one is willing to do it, and if you want something done, you gotta-do-it-yourself applies, but no one has the patience or time or money, then who're you gonna call??? ....Are we pirates? Or are we mice? (just a thought)

[Jinkxed Jack]

Heh, so would these be considered "better than screen accurate"? I'm pretty sure they used the plastic ones for the movie, but having one in silver would be pretty cool. How much weight does it add to the dangle?

[Capn_Jack_Savvy]

Nice. Sterling silver though you may want to seal them in some type of matte sealer. I see these puppies tarnishing up really, really, really fast. It may add to the weathered look but silver tarnishes very quickly. With sweat and heat from ones noggin it may also seep into the bandana. Just saying sealing is always good for sterling silver.

Also professional tarnish kits have an additive in the polish that slows down the tarnishing process in between polishes.

Remember what happens when you wear your Jack rings too long? That band around the fingers?

WHAT MAKES STERLING SILVER TARNISH & CAN IT BE PREVENTED?

Tarnished Silver!
Silver is the most popular type of metal used for Jewelry in the World today. Jewelers love it, customers love it, there's a great abundance of it, and it's inexpensive! It seems like such a win-win situation, doesn't it?

But there's one huge down-fall to Silver. It tarnishes! It turns black. It leaves dark black, blue, purple stains on your fingers, wrists and neck. It even leaves stains on your clothes. Everywhere that Silver touches, Silver leaves its mark. And not in a pretty way! It's gross and ugly!

The funny thing is, it doesn't stop people from buying it or wearing it. People know Silver does this, and they don't care. It's still highly popular.

I would surmise that there are 3 main reasons why Silver is so sought after. 1) It's Cheap! (Very Cheap!) 2) It's very malleable. Jewelers and Artists have no problems molding and shaping Silver into wonderful works of art. 3) It's White! People have always been attracted to White Metals. Now more than ever. If you go into any Jewelry Store, over half the cases will be full of White Metals like: Silver, Platinum, Titanium, Tungsten, Steel or White Gold. There's no denying it, White Metals are HOT!

Silver Jewelry has been around forever. But forever doesn't help the fact that Silver is very soft. Silver is actually too soft to wear as Jewelry. That's why most of the Silver you find on the market today is called "Sterling Silver". Sterling Silver is more durable than pure Silver because of one main reason. It's mixed with other alloys. Sterling Silver contains 92.5% Silver, and the other 7.5% is Copper. Copper makes the Silver stronger and more durable so it can be crafted and styled into beautiful Jewelry pieces.

That's why you'll normally find a karat stamp inside the Rings or Jewelry that says ".925" That means 92.5% Silver, which is what the Government says Silver needs to be, to be sold in the U.S.A. as "Silver".

No matter what, Pure or mixed, nothing stops Silver from tarnishing. When Silver is exposed to the air and atmosphere, it causes a chemical reaction that creates something called Silver Sulfate. That's what that lovely little black mark is on your finger. A Sulfate stain.

[Donny_Jepp]

Thanks Charles for the specification information on the metal of silver, it helps! Strange, I have warn a silver ring for months on end, pure sterling, and I never saw it change color yet at all, but I am expecting it any moment now. Now I can understand why you went with white-gold instead of silver for the teeth caps (bottom row) like I did... I guess I need to brush my teeth even more than I already do, which is pretty darn much much!

As for the black on my fingers, it's because I wear those ACME rings, they're "white metal" even though they look yellow (Dragon Ring) etc. I noticed that hand sanitizer turns the brass/bronze "said white-metal" of the dragon ring to a blue/green oxidation patina, it's sad!

So, yes these are really heavy beads. I guess they might weigh down the bandanna dangle, but isn't that SA also? Well, maybe these would be cool to just have, you don't have to use them in your ZF, I might, as soon as the day I ever use real carved animal bone instead of resin!

[Lawrence252]

Seriously? I told GemsAndKnots (Mary Roberts) exactly what I was doing since March of 2011

All that needed to be said mate.

The way I see it though, if you want something you can't buy, you make it.

[Mojo Turbo]

those look mighty purdy

[Donny_Jepp]

those look mighty purdy

Thanks, but I'm not fully satisfied with selling these just yet. More work needs to be done...

Well I just spoke to the casting corporation earlier today, and what they said is that they were having alot of trouble with the silicone molding process and the heat of the metal causing expected common shrinkage, yet I think they look much thicker, but that could just be an optical illusion. So, what we're going to do, is WAIT MORE TIME on this, they want to make a MASTER out of one of the silver beads, then no longer use the GemsAndKnots model anymore since it doesn't have enough detail to begin with, then we'll be drilling details with some ultra thin precision jeweler tools, thus making the NEW MASTER as a more highly detailed and steeply contoured original design that was only based off of the metalized plastic (GemsAndKnots) model. What do you say to that?

What you see in my photographic examples are only tumbled basic products, they look much shinier in person but are certainly not shiny enough in the photo examples. I guarantee that these are real sterling silver and not some cheap allow, however, I also will be investing in a cheaper alternative to silver. Meaning that I will have both versions available in STERLING SILVER and some available in "some odd white alloy" that I don't know the name of, but the caster just told me today that he can do both.

It may cost me whole lot more, so far, I can't imagine even making any profit on this item at all so far. It's just been one big expensive experiment. But nothing ventured, nothing gained. Keep your fingers crossed, I really wan to do this. How much of a rush are all your droolers hoping for?

And hey Lawrence, you're a metal worker or something, right?

[Lawrence252]

Not really a metal worker. But I like to try my hand at anything haha.

Only worked with casting white metals though. I imagine sterling silver has a much higher melting point. I'm confused as to why they are using a silicone to mould, I would have thought they would be using a lost wax casting or something. I don't know of any silicones that could withstand that kind of heat, the highest temp I've found is 316ºC.

Lawrence

[Capn_Jack_Savvy]

Donny Jepp, just a thought mind ye!!!

What if you took one of the plastic beads and took a leather awl to it. You know one of those really sharp, pointy tools used to poke holes in leather?

Awl:


Start to engrave around the pattern on the sacrificial plastic bead to give it a more pronounced and clean look. This should make it easier to create your master mold. The lines will be more clean and the pattern on the bead should stand out more.

Just a thought.....

[Donny_Jepp]

Not really a metal worker. But I like to try my hand at anything haha.
Only worked with casting white metals though. ....................................... I'm confused as to why they are using a silicone to mould, I would have thought they would be using a lost wax casting or something.................

WEll fill us in on any metal process you've worked on, that's helpful for us all. I'm just going by what two jeweler sources said, and they said they needed to use this silicone for the 'negative' which took about a week to cure. They said something like if the bead was metal, they could recast it in rubber.... wait, isn't silicone just a type of rubber? Or at least considered one of many rubbers. Then if the normal procedure with a "rubber", then what type of "rubber" do they use? I didn't get too many answers, because they both talked my ear off about way too many other things. Well I'm stopping there tomorrow in-person, so if anyone wants me to write down any specific questions I can bring with me to show them, now's the opportune moment!

What if you took one of the plastic beads and took a leather awl to it..............
Start to engrave around the pattern on the sacrificial plastic bead to give it a more pronounced and clean look. This should make it easier to create your master mold. The lines will be more clean and the pattern on the bead should stand out more........................

Yes I did try doing this before I handed them the original master bead, but the awl was too course of a detail-creator, and so I tried a sewing needle and some other tools. The only results I could get was scratches, and I've sacrificed many of these plastic beads in the process. But they think the process would be cleaner anyway if the master was metal. I guess I could have used a wood-burning soldering-iron or something, but it'd need a very sharp point tip, and alot of practice. But I was advised to stick to a metal bead MASTER instead of plastic, I'm still trying to figure why.

[Lawrence252]

It might be worth trying to get a plaster version, and then carving your details in there. I always prefer carving into plaster when its not fully cured, it's a trial and error thing to get it at the right point, but you get a few hours working time before all the water dries. I normally make a casting in plaster and then go over the details with a needle, screwdriver, toothpick, awl then remould.

I do know that you can lose a lot of detail if you aren't using the right mould release, or if your mould isn't preheated enough. But if these guys are jewellers they should know a lot more than I do about this.

Lawrence

[Donny_Jepp]

Okay.... the latest information.... I just got back from a long drive to the caster's workshop & company. Very confusing process. They start with the original, casting it in silicone instead of vulcanized rubber, then they make a secondary "positive" out of a pink jewelers wax, then the rest gets very confusing since the process wasn't explained in the best order etc. It had something to do with a hollow air chamber and some other equipment you obviously cannot afford to purchase for home use etc, unless you're a professional etc.

The good news, is that all those beads that I uploaded pictures of, are no longer in existence!! That's right, they've all been destroyed, back to the melting pot, redone... I blame the 3rd party jeweler that I went through to get to the caster, he didn't qualify his customer(me) properly from the start and didn't warn me of all my options. So... the caster is going to make one of the silver beads as a MASTER and add even more hand-machined detail... so in other words NO LONGER WILL IT BE THE SAME THING AS THE "GemsAndKnots" BEAD ANYMORE, it will be a modified design, far more clear detail with highly pronounced steep design contours more exaggerated than the original plastic bead. Plus we'll be hollowing out the entire silver bead even more, so that it will be alot lighter weight and a little bit more affordable for everyone! The weight of those silver beads were as heavy as a Tyrannical*Piratical*Treasures*1st (brand) kuchi-cube bead! They were really heavy, I thought silver wouldn't be that heavy, but since it was so dense and thick, obviously it's gonna be heavy!

So I'll keep everyone informed of as to what's going on with this process. I certainly hope people are wanting to buy these or else I'll be saving this bling-bling collection for my own personal use.... on maybe a.... little rope to form a chain of these beads, for who knows what!

[capt.J.j.sparrow]

let us know! I really think it would be awesome to have a set of new bling!

[Donny_Jepp]

I mean this is really happening, I'm gonna have alot of these on my hand this summer, not Fall, this SUMMER! Can I have a show of hands? Who wants one? (are we allowed to post prices?) I don't have a price yet. Who's interested??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?

So the jeweler/caster explained to me some history on these beads, he said in some ancient cultures for trade, Asian money could be warn on a chord so that you wont lose it, having the hole through the middle etc. Then he explained some historical significance about this OST bead and it's design... honestly... I don't remember everything he said, I just thought it was some modern generic design that only looked cool! I guess the style of this OST bead was based off of something ancient, although no documents were brought up, it was just a professional's opinion. He sure sounded like he knew what he was talking about, I wish I could have shared the whole conversation. He explained the difference in the machine-embossing/stamping and molding of metals for their designs. I'll try to get more information on this particular piece (if any) next time I meet up with him. Would anyone care to add to this statement?

[capt.J.j.sparrow]

HAND! I want!

[Donny_Jepp]

GREAT, we got ONE HAND!!! Perfect, so I'll be having at least ONE available this month! Anymore? Ahh what the heck, I'll have a hand full created anyway. If they don't sell, I'll just keep them on a rope for myself, they're so cool!

[Maui512]

Those look great! I see a lot of potential there, should polish up very nicely. Do you think these will be practical and affordable to produce? If so I'm number one on the list

I'm still number one

[Donny_Jepp]

Those look great! I see a lot of potential there, should polish up very nicely. Do you think these will be practical and affordable to produce? If so I'm number one on the list

I'm still number one

Oh right right! Then that makes TWO HANDS!!!

[GemsandKnots]

Just wondering if you got permission from GemsAndKnots before recasting these? As more of a 'prop builder' than 'cosplayer' recasting has never been something I would condone.

What you've done looks nice, but all the the hard work was done by GemsAndKnots.

Lawrence

Sorry I've been away from the court for so long, mates, so I'm jumping in here late. I knew the captain was having these made and appreciate his efforts, though it sounds like an expensive process. Just to clarify...we do NOT make the (plastic) beads. We are merely re-sellers. Thank you for looking out for us though!

[Donny_Jepp]

What a coincidence, I'm back!

I just got these from the caster yesterday. All of these are identical, I've checked. They appear to be very antique-looking, not completely perfect, but they're just as shiny as they need to be. They will look great on the ZF strand, and they wont be as heavy as the last batch. One side is close to perfect, as the other side is more pitted (as if it's ancient), they're really cool!

I wont be the one selling these, but do contact me if you want one or some, there's a total of 5 here, even though six are pictured. The old ones have been melted, so they no longer exist.

Can I post prices here publicly? I'm not sure I understood the rules fully about that here.

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