Re: Acting the Part, the walk, the linger, the voice and what NOT to do

[Captain McCool]

Great! This is precisely the information I was wanting! Thans guys!
Cockney was what I was leaning towards, but... well, I mean he doesn't sound like, say, Russel Brand. Like you said, it's smoother and better annunciated than that. There's a werid "upper-classness" to it, while also having distinct "lower class" elements.

It's not far from the accent he put on for Sweeney Todd, but I'd say that one was more straight-up Cockney.

So with all of that in mind, here's another question: If one of you heard some person speaking with the same accent as Jack in or around your home city or general area, would your ear perk up and say, "that's someone putting on a fake accent"?

P.S. Why is it that when we Americans try to do Cockney it always comes out sounding slightly Australian? I mean, look at Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins. Good heavens!

[Button It]

Great! This is precisely the information I was wanting! Thans guys!
Cockney was what I was leaning towards, but... well, I mean he doesn't sound like, say, Russel Brand. Like you said, it's smoother and better annunciated than that. There's a werid "upper-classness" to it, while also having distinct "lower class" elements.

It's not far from the accent he put on for Sweeney Todd, but I'd say that one was more straight-up Cockney.

So with all of that in mind, here's another question: If one of you heard some person speaking with the same accent as Jack in or around your home city or general area, would your ear perk up and say, "that's someone putting on a fake accent"?

P.S. Why is it that when we Americans try to do Cockney it always comes out sounding slightly Australian? I mean, look at Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins. Good heavens!

I don't think I've ever really heard anyone speak like Jack - it's not impossible but would feel rather staged I feel - I imagine it'd be someone with a slightly better class of upbringing speaking down. Linguistically Australian is probably a descendant of cockney anyway, what with most of the convicts sent out there originally probably being working class Londoners.

[Captain McCool]

Yeah, completely makes sense. Especially since I always figured Jack WAS in fact well educated and felt himself "above his station," so he probably would be sort of "talking down."

And you're dead right about the Australian of course. Makes perfect sense. I always said Australian was like a lower-class London with a Texas twang, heh.

[TheCursed]

I do know of one guy who sounds very much like him but its a slight higher pitch than Jacks. Only slightly. If anything it's the tone and how words are pronounced rather than dead on Jack. But he's not solid cockney most likely from a rural region with those south east elements.

[Captain McCool]

Yeah, what you say about the rural accents is really interesting to me. In the States I find it somewhat hard to hear differences like this, since we often just hear "English" and don't really qualify it further than that. I'd be interested to see if I can find examples of some of the specific dialects you're talking about, just to see if I could pick out the nuances in there.

[TheCursed]

Okay man cool, if you have skype i'll try get it and we can chat. I have a friend from up north of mid to south yorkshire so we can show the difference between my accent and his. As mines a smoother southern accent but deeper in tone that his. Whereas his is a rougher accent but a lot higher. I'll find a way to demonstrate anyway..this is a weird love of mine. Accents and dialects it really speaks volumes of history you can tell instantly where someone comes from.

[Button It]

Yeah, what you say about the rural accents is really interesting to me. In the States I find it somewhat hard to hear differences like this, since we often just hear "English" and don't really qualify it further than that. I'd be interested to see if I can find examples of some of the specific dialects you're talking about, just to see if I could pick out the nuances in there.

Just youtube scouse, west county, brummie and geordie accents. It always baffles me how Americans can fail to tell that they're different from the queens English. That said most of the original settlers on the Mayflower were probably from the West Country - and probably a lot of pirates too, popularised by Robert Newton into what has become the now generic Pirate Speak

[TheCursed]

Yeah, what you say about the rural accents is really interesting to me. In the States I find it somewhat hard to hear differences like this, since we often just hear "English" and don't really qualify it further than that. I'd be interested to see if I can find examples of some of the specific dialects you're talking about, just to see if I could pick out the nuances in there.

Just youtube scouse, west county, brummie and geordie accents. It always baffles me how Americans can fail to tell that they're different from the queens English. That said most of the original settlers on the Mayflower were probably from the West Country - and probably a lot of pirates too, popularised by Robert Newton into what has become the now generic Pirate Speak

Mate, the Mayflower left from my hometown 'Harwich' in Essex. They'd speak (Some would) very very similar to my own accent Obviously you had people from all over the country but a few notable ones came from Harwich and our dialect hasen't changed greatly. Just the way we speak, pronounce words and write especially.

[Captain McCool]

Very cool! I do have Skype, but at this time I don't have a mic for it. It's near the top of my list of "things to get" though. One way or the other, it'd be awesome to get something together like that!

And yeah, it's really a fascination of mine as well. Not just because of Jack, but also because I... well, I dunno, I just sort of like mimicking accents and dialects, I suppose. I guess it's the actor in me. I'm equally fascinated when people from elsewhere try to put on an American accent - which frankly I find mostly homogenized, on the whole. I blame television, though I know some hard-core American linguist types who disagree with me. Heh, maybe I should've been a linguist myself. It just seems like fun.

And Buttonit, I think one of the reasons Americans have such a hard time with the nuance of specific regional accents and dialects from the UK is because we really don't have that kind of variegation here. Like I said, there are those who would vehemently disagree with me, but ultimately I think there is a fairly standardized "American" accent. Sure, there are subtle differences in intonation and pronunciation - like, for some reason everyone in Colorado pronounces it ColoroAdo, with a long A, like in "that" or "can," whereas everyone else seems to pronounce it how it really ought to be pronounced, with an "a" sound like in "awe" or "fawn." Another example is how a lot of East-Coasters pronounce "water" as "woter." But until one of these strange deviations in pronunciation or inflection comes up, I find peoples' accents around here aren't terribly distinguishable. And being that we tend to think of everything in terms of what we're used to, we sort of impose that concept on the rest of the world too. At least, that's my theory.

[Button It]

Mate, the Mayflower left from my hometown 'Harwich' in Essex. They'd speak (Some would) very very similar to my own accent Obviously you had people from all over the country but a few notable ones came from Harwich and our dialect hasen't changed greatly. Just the way we speak, pronounce words and write especially.

I could have sworn it left from Plymouth, but you're right they probably did have people from all over the country. But even English accents have changed hugely in even the past 50 years...

[Captain McCool]

I've heard many people (both American and British) say that, if you really want to hear what a somewhat common English accent sounded like way back when, you should listen carefully to the speech in extremely rural parts of the northern East Coast of the US. Around Maine, Rhode Island, and really the whole general New England area. They say that the dialect and accent there supposedly hasn't changed much in the last 200 or so years. I must never have heard it, because it doesn't ring a bell to me...

[Button It]

Very cool! I do have Skype, but at this time I don't have a mic for it. It's near the top of my list of "things to get" though. One way or the other, it'd be awesome to get something together like that!

And yeah, it's really a fascination of mine as well. Not just because of Jack, but also because I... well, I dunno, I just sort of like mimicking accents and dialects, I suppose. I guess it's the actor in me. I'm equally fascinated when people from elsewhere try to put on an American accent - which frankly I find mostly homogenized, on the whole. I blame television, though I know some hard-core American linguist types who disagree with me. Heh, maybe I should've been a linguist myself. It just seems like fun.

And Buttonit, I think one of the reasons Americans have such a hard time with the nuance of specific regional accents and dialects from the UK is because we really don't have that kind of variegation here. Like I said, there are those who would vehemently disagree with me, but ultimately I think there is a fairly standardized "American" accent. Sure, there are subtle differences in intonation and pronunciation - like, for some reason everyone in Colorado pronounces it ColoroAdo, with a long A, like in "that" or "can," whereas everyone else seems to pronounce it how it really ought to be pronounced, with an "a" sound like in "awe" or "fawn." Another example is how a lot of East-Coasters pronounce "water" as "woter." But until one of these strange deviations in pronunciation or inflection comes up, I find peoples' accents around here aren't terribly distinguishable. And being that we tend to think of everything in terms of what we're used to, we sort of impose that concept on the rest of the world too. At least, that's my theory.

Obviously TV and film has a lot to play in the homogenising of accents - people's accent is based on their influence, which is why so many Europeans now speak English with an American accent as they're exposed to so much TV. But America still has it's fair share of accents which are obviously different to even an English ear - I mean New York and the Deep South are quite clearly different to the Mid Westy generic American. Quite a lot of it is down to education as well, where it's usually the less educated that have a more pronounced accents.

Interestingly since Rock'n'roll came along nearly all pop singers sing in the same American accent - to such an extent that when someone English sings in an English accent it sounds a bit weird.

[callmemilo]

I'm in the rather unique position of being half-american half-persian, born and raised in the UK. Even so occasionally I do have quite a thick unexplainably american accent. However this had made it easier for me when it comes to character impersonation, and Jack's no exception. And I wholeheartedly agree with Simon, that Jack's accent isn't uniquely English. I've noticed the Aussie twang in there too, as well as the relax cockney. All comes down to delivery at the end of the day though, in my opinion. If you don't put the stresses in a sentence where Jack would, you don't sound like Jack at all. You just sound like some weird brit, lol.

[TheCursed]

Mate, the Mayflower left from my hometown 'Harwich' in Essex. They'd speak (Some would) very very similar to my own accent Obviously you had people from all over the country but a few notable ones came from Harwich and our dialect hasen't changed greatly. Just the way we speak, pronounce words and write especially.

I could have sworn it left from Plymouth, but you're right they probably did have people from all over the country. But even English accents have changed hugely in even the past 50 years...

it could have sailed to Plymouth But Harwich is Mass. is twinned with my hometown here Accents are weird..and most Brits are weird..weird and pale lol

[Pirate Daddy]

Interestingly since Rock'n'roll came along nearly all pop singers sing in the same American accent - to such an extent that when someone English sings in an English accent it sounds a bit weird.

Heh, I was listening to an Eric Clapton concert a few days ago and was thinking exactly this! It was a little jarring to hear him speaking with an English accent between songs.

[blueyedjack]

I was just watching tobymarkham on youtube and noticed a slip up with the "Jackccent" and I thought I might as well point it out so any american Jacks don't make the same mistake. He used the word 'MOM' where as in england we say 'MUM' when we are talking about mothers.

[TheCursed]

Ah heres a point I was talking to a Jack about, my mate from the North says Mam, I say Mum but its a rather short violent word often the U is heard more, concentrated on. The Jaccent is not hard to do if your from around this area even most Americans and Northern English can grab it but as Blue-eye said (Blue-eye..good name, very piratey) little things like Mom can lead to teeny tiny slip-ups.

[SparrowDive]

Most of the problems I've encountered are people grabbing at your belt stuffs...

I love the roleplay and all, but sometimes it's hard not to get nervous when someone is reaching for your expensive belt items.

I was having such problems with it that I asked my Martial Arts instructor to teach me some simple techniques to re-direct people's hands away from your belt.

VERY easy, very effective and you can do these without inflicting ANY pain on anyone... Unless you want to... Silly college hooligans out to ruin Jack's good time...

[TheCursed]

Your fun lol

I'm a dab hand at sword fighting, used to teach people other reenactors etc so was thinking to challenge a guy to a sword-fight with prop wooden swords obviously. If he beats me he gets a prize well..he wont win, and if he does the prize is to wave while I run away. With guys it'll get heated, meaning some rough stuff is fine..not my fault if he jaw collides with my boot now is it lol

In all seriousness though i'm known here as being 'that guy' the crazy person everyone knows of..people don't bother me unless i'm somewhere new.

[SparrowDive]

It's always good to have some tricks up your sleeve, makes the experience all the more fun when you actually interact with people, weather it be slicing their heads off or karate chopping their face ;D

[blueyedjack]

Come to think of it, it does seem a that a lot of northeners have the habit of saying 'MAM'. It is especialy obvious in the film 'BILLY ELLIOT' which is based in the north of england in the eighties during the coal mine strikes, if I'm not mistaken to be more exact I think it's based in the Yorkshire area... I could be wrong lol.

Click to the link below and skip to 5:07
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lm5reTXJQQA

[Captain McCool]

I actually find the accent of the Yorkshire area, and Northern England in general to be really fascinating. It's definitely one that I've found more difficult to nail down than a lot of the more southern accents. It almost has Scottish overtones (which I suppose makes sense, given the proximity), but is still a distinctly ENGLISH sound. It's one of my favorites. I actually thought Russell Crowe did a pretty bang-up job of this type of accent in the recent Robin Hood movie. Very subtle, but melodious to the ear

It's a lot of those little pronunciation quirks, as well as specific slang words, that make doing an accent convincingly so difficult. One of the things that catches me up when doing Jack, as well as a more generic "London" sort of accent, is how to pronounce the "A" sound when in the middle of words. For instance, I was trying to describe the Jack/will blacksmith shop fight while in character once, and when I attempted to describe the point where they were fighting in the rafters, I suddenly got caught up short, because I didn't know whether to pronounce "rafter" with a hard or soft "A." Another tricky one is when a word ends with a vowel sound. Much of the time I've heard the English add an "r" sound to the end of such words (in the case of the name "Veronica" for instance, one might pronounce it "Veronicar"), but this doesn't seem to be across the board. What do you all think? I seem to recall Jack adding this "r" sound in some instances, but I know for a fact he didn't do it every time.

[TheCursed]

I find it extremely hard to pronounce my 'r's' they often sound slightly like a w. lol. BUT thats because I have a mild southern/country accent like the hole oo arr thing..my r's can be pronounced if I exaggerated and literally say 'ar' rather than 'r'.

I never knew how odd this country was lol

[Captain McCool]

Heh... right... so I think the moral of the story here really is "if someone ticks you off, just karate chop them in the face."



This thread just maybe might have headed in a direction not originally intended

[blueyedjack]

It's a lot of those little pronunciation quirks, as well as specific slang words, that make doing an accent convincingly so difficult. One of the things that catches me up when doing Jack, as well as a more generic "London" sort of accent, is how to pronounce the "A" sound when in the middle of words. For instance, I was trying to describe the Jack/will blacksmith shop fight while in character once, and when I attempted to describe the point where they were fighting in the rafters, I suddenly got caught up short, because I didn't know whether to pronounce "rafter" with a hard or soft "A." Another tricky one is when a word ends with a vowel sound. Much of the time I've heard the English add an "r" sound to the end of such words (in the case of the name "Veronica" for instance, one might pronounce it "Veronicar"), but this doesn't seem to be across the board. What do you all think? I seem to recall Jack adding this "r" sound in some instances, but I know for a fact he didn't do it every time.

Unfortunatly, the we are portrayed to other country is often as posh snobs, where as most english, like myself, don't add the 'r' sound but the a is defently promanent. One big difference I have noticed with the english accent is we pronounce 'T's more than other accents when they are in the middle of a word like 'compuTer' or 'baTTery' (pronounced batchry in england).

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